Judgement day without an advocate

THE TRUE DIGLET

THE TRUE DIGLET

a carrot a day keeps satan away. never selling my
God - you are accused of murder

N - but I did good things in my life sometimes

God - what kind of defense is that you are still guilty, of to hell with you!

FAITH ALONE SAVES

FAITH ALONE = ADVOCATE ON JUDGEMENT DAY AKA CHRIST = HE WILL PAY YOUR BAIL
 
I have never met a believer in Christ, no matter the varied denominational aspects to Christ's legacy, who honestly believes themself to be dependent on their works for salvation. What must be understood is that faith precedes works and so works abide then by the heavenly commandments of our Lord Jesus, that abidance itself to the commandments being faith in Christ as our absolute Godhead, our Tao. So, really, the best word to describe the factor of salvation is the grace of God, which has permitted us into the heavens to be with Him in eternity, for it is by His judgement that this is all decided. To go onto rambles of further vocabulary is to only complicate things with no result, like backing our reason into a corner and prodding it with a spear so that we can bleed more human understanding out of it. Yet, truly, the bleeding is already done, and it is as human as it is divine. It must be by the grace of God, by the perfect and just compassion of our Heavenly Father, then, that we may attain His great gift of eternal life, to be with Him in divinely-perfected splendor.
 
baqqrih said:
I have never met a believer in Christ, no matter the varied denominational aspects to Christ's legacy, who honestly believes themself to be dependent on their works for salvation. What must be understood is that faith precedes works and so works abide then by the heavenly commandments of our Lord Jesus, that abidance itself to the commandments being faith in Christ as our absolute Godhead, our Tao. So, really, the best word to describe the factor of salvation is the grace of God, which has permitted us into the heavens to be with Him in eternity, for it is by His judgement that this is all decided. To go onto rambles of further vocabulary is to only complicate things with no result, like backing our reason into a corner and prodding it with a spear so that we can bleed more human understanding out of it. Yet, truly, the bleeding is already done, and it is as human as it is divine. It must be by the grace of God, by the perfect and just compassion of our Heavenly Father, then, that we may attain His great gift of eternal life, to be with Him in divinely-perfected splendor.
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But what if heaven is made out of marshmallow?
 
I don't think "someone else is paying for my crimes" is a good defense either. Penal substitution is legalistic confusion, if someone murdered your son but Donald Trump came to pay his bail and now the murderer's a free man, would you consider that justice? Probably not, so either the heavenly court is more of a kangaroo court than the ones we have on earth, or it isn't a court.
Not to mention it shackles God to this concept of "perfect justice" where, even if he wishes to forgive everybody, he can't because he needs to be appeased. That's to say God the father doesn't forgive you, he gets appeased by God the son. This brings into question his omnibenevolence, as he cannot or won't forgive without sufficient appeasement, making him into a God of wrath rather than love. Even with appeasement, is it still forgiveness? If you get justly compensated for something how can you forgive it? If you owe me a debt and you pay it, I didn't forgive you your debt, I got compensated. So how does God forgive anyone if he's getting compensated?

I am of course not saying salvation is earned, but it is clear salvation is an otherworldly mystery that cannot be likened to our world, much less our legal institutions. This mystery is what the Orthodox faith would call Theosis, or deification. The process of letting God's energies purify you in preparation for the coming life.
 
Spas said:
I don't think "someone else is paying for my crimes" is a good defense either. Penal substitution is legalistic confusion, if someone murdered your son but Donald Trump came to pay his bail and now the murderer's a free man, would you consider that justice? Probably not, so either the heavenly court is more of a kangaroo court than the ones we have on earth, or it isn't a court.
Not to mention it shackles God to this concept of "perfect justice" where, even if he wishes to forgive everybody, he can't because he needs to be appeased. That's to say God the father doesn't forgive you, he gets appeased by God the son. This brings into question his omnibenevolence, as he cannot or won't forgive without sufficient appeasement, making him into a God of wrath rather than love. Even with appeasement, is it still forgiveness? If you get justly compensated for something how can you forgive it? If you owe me a debt and you pay it, I didn't forgive you your debt, I got compensated. So how does God forgive anyone if he's getting compensated?

I am of course not saying salvation is earned, but it is clear salvation is an otherworldly mystery that cannot be likened to our world, much less our legal institutions. This mystery is what the Orthodox faith would call Theosis, or deification. The process of letting God's energies purify you in preparation for the coming life.
Click to expand...
Well god is the judge and defender at the same time
 
Spas said:
I don't think "someone else is paying for my crimes" is a good defense either. Penal substitution is legalistic confusion, if someone murdered your son but Donald Trump came to pay his bail and now the murderer's a free man, would you consider that justice? Probably not, so either the heavenly court is more of a kangaroo court than the ones we have on earth, or it isn't a court.
Not to mention it shackles God to this concept of "perfect justice" where, even if he wishes to forgive everybody, he can't because he needs to be appeased. That's to say God the father doesn't forgive you, he gets appeased by God the son. This brings into question his omnibenevolence, as he cannot or won't forgive without sufficient appeasement, making him into a God of wrath rather than love. Even with appeasement, is it still forgiveness? If you get justly compensated for something how can you forgive it? If you owe me a debt and you pay it, I didn't forgive you your debt, I got compensated. So how does God forgive anyone if he's getting compensated?

I am of course not saying salvation is earned, but it is clear salvation is an otherworldly mystery that cannot be likened to our world, much less our legal institutions. This mystery is what the Orthodox faith would call Theosis, or deification. The process of letting God's energies purify you in preparation for the coming life.
Click to expand...
Now that you point it out, penal substitution does seem to basically nullify God's mercy in the Last Judgment. Justice is a situation in which a being gets what it deserves. Mercy is a negation of justice for some greater good. And justice and mercy both submit (or at least should submit) to wisdom. At least this is my understanding of these two words.
 

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