what is good historical evidence and modern evidence of magic usage
- Thread starter Harlequin
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I don't know if magic exists in the traditional sense. I believe it might simply be science we don't yet understand. Programs like the CIA's Stargate Project, investigated psychic phenomena, including remote viewing (the ability to "see" distant locations). It shows that modern science has taken such claims seriously enough to invest in them. It's possible then, that it operates under laws of its own we've yet to uncover.
Look at medieval Europe and the Islamic Golden Age, alchemy intertwined both science and mysticism together. The pursuit of transmuting base metals into gold or finding the Philosopher’s Stone was dismissed as superstition, but alchemists developed processes that became the foundation for modern chemistry. For example, distillation and the discovery of acids were once considered "magical."
Look at medieval Europe and the Islamic Golden Age, alchemy intertwined both science and mysticism together. The pursuit of transmuting base metals into gold or finding the Philosopher’s Stone was dismissed as superstition, but alchemists developed processes that became the foundation for modern chemistry. For example, distillation and the discovery of acids were once considered "magical."
Swede Immigrant
Well-known member
All occurrences of real magic are glitches in the matrix.
1Based Frog1
Well-known member
Closest thing I can think of is an undeciphered book called The Voynich Manuscript. People to this day debate whether it’s just a hoax or a coded magical text.
panchito
best member of all the forum
there are still some few unexplainable happenings out there but even then i find it really absurd for there to be another type of matter/plane that works completely different from our regular laws of physics and that we could even tame
maybe it existed before considering we didn't abandon all high presence yet but nowadays i see it more like a trope for fiction
Cortex
The Bee W Sea
I still remember them pushing dark matter like it was some invisible force. I wonder what happened to that theory.
panchito
best member of all the forum
most definitely classified it
i have no doubt they struck what they were looking for and are now planning on different ways to manipulate it to do whatever the fuck they want (or what they can even do with dark matter)
HardcoreBlackpill
Member
panchito
best member of all the forum
thats a placeholder AVI more than anything because i have no good images to use (all my gallery is school notebook photos)
Spas
Well-known member
It was just made up shit because the universe wasn't conforming to their calculations and it's easier to make up "dark matter" than to admit your model of the universe is wrong. That's science for you, btw.
Cortex
The Bee W Sea
There’s also “cold dark matter” which is invisible forces moving at slow speed, jfl.
AR47
Well-known member
In a sense there is magick happening all the time. Even an honest and smart atheist would admit this.
Consciousness is immaterial. But consciousness affects material reality. Because to even talk about consciousness the brain needs to send the appropriate neural impulses to the body to talk about it. Here we have a case of immaterial reality affecting material reality.
It could be that consciousness just creates electrical impulses in the brain ex-nihilo. Or it could be that consciousness causes the wave function to collapse. Or alternatively consciousness can influence reality meta-chronologically. Meaning that the impulses that consciousness generates affects the entirety of the universe in such a way that when we arrive at the point where we want to speak about consciousness the material reality is already arranged in such a way that the determined mechanics brain and body cause the speaking about consciousness to happen. If you're a theist you can also believe that God does this arranging of material conditions.
Consciousness is immaterial. But consciousness affects material reality. Because to even talk about consciousness the brain needs to send the appropriate neural impulses to the body to talk about it. Here we have a case of immaterial reality affecting material reality.
It could be that consciousness just creates electrical impulses in the brain ex-nihilo. Or it could be that consciousness causes the wave function to collapse. Or alternatively consciousness can influence reality meta-chronologically. Meaning that the impulses that consciousness generates affects the entirety of the universe in such a way that when we arrive at the point where we want to speak about consciousness the material reality is already arranged in such a way that the determined mechanics brain and body cause the speaking about consciousness to happen. If you're a theist you can also believe that God does this arranging of material conditions.
AR47
Well-known member
Shut yo goofy ass up. The rest of physics is backed up by mountains of evidence, so it's just better to leave dark matter and dark energy as poorly understood variables than to disregard all of physics. They were discovered through mathematical necessity, not made up.
AR47
Well-known member
*determined mechanics of the brain and body
Spas
Well-known member
>We made this model of the universe and it ALMSOT works so it is necessary to slap in some unobservable, unverifiable variable to fill the gap because having a false understanding of the universe is better than having an incomplete understanding of the universe because I need to appease my labcoat ego
Yeah ok buddy, dark matter of the gaps, why don't we start explaining everything with random, unobservable shit?
Your point about consciousness is interesting. Yet, if consciousness affects reality in such a way, wouldn't we see consistent, observable evidence of it beyond our own subjective experience?
Itransheartblox
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SiegeChud
Well-known member
i agree with the creator of atheistic (atheistic not atheist) satanism Anton LaVeys definition of magic which is "The change in situations or events in accordance with one’s will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be T unchangeable.” - satanic bible page 116
i am blood related to people who follow wicca and when i was younger i kinda just went along with it i dont have a negative view of some magical rituals (there is such a thing as christian esotericism after all) although i will refer you to 1 Samuel 15:23 Exodus 22:18 and Deuteronomy 18:10-12
i am blood related to people who follow wicca and when i was younger i kinda just went along with it i dont have a negative view of some magical rituals (there is such a thing as christian esotericism after all) although i will refer you to 1 Samuel 15:23 Exodus 22:18 and Deuteronomy 18:10-12
There are spiritual dangers in dabbling with practices that fall outside of the Biblical understanding of God's sovereignty. Christian esotericism focuses on the idea of Christ and the Holy Spirit working through believers, not through manipulation of natural forces. The verses you mentioned actually warn against practices that could lead to spiritual compromise or idolatry. To study rituals or symbols is one thing, but when they become a means of personal power or control, that’s where the line is crossed.
The unsolvable constants and laws of the universe sewn in the fabric of reality that we can not understand nor see nor have an explanation for
Cortex
The Bee W Sea
Such as?
That’s what magic is
okaysomevampires
New member
How fantastical does magic have to be?
You could call a steam engine magic. "Oh look it depends on the constants and laws of reality," I don't think that works. I don't think that calling nanobots magic would work. I think that mathematical tricks falling out of fractals, chaos theory or the central limit theorem are closer to the spirit of magical. Things like "I can tell this website is suffering from DDOS right now because the traffic fails to fit a power law distribution" is cool because it tells the actions of an entity apart from the 'natural' equivalent by a residue of a pattern. I don't think that drugs, art or larping count as magic, but only because they lack useful and surprising results. If I was convinced that shamans/occultists/etc could see the future or something special then I could be easily convinced that they are relying on hidden patterns in reality.
You could call a steam engine magic. "Oh look it depends on the constants and laws of reality," I don't think that works. I don't think that calling nanobots magic would work. I think that mathematical tricks falling out of fractals, chaos theory or the central limit theorem are closer to the spirit of magical. Things like "I can tell this website is suffering from DDOS right now because the traffic fails to fit a power law distribution" is cool because it tells the actions of an entity apart from the 'natural' equivalent by a residue of a pattern. I don't think that drugs, art or larping count as magic, but only because they lack useful and surprising results. If I was convinced that shamans/occultists/etc could see the future or something special then I could be easily convinced that they are relying on hidden patterns in reality.
I think that the main disagreement you'd run into when pitching this to atheists would be along the lines of "how do I know that my body does stuff because of my consciousness? If I write some poetry about the conscious experience of the color red, maybe that just happens to align with my conscious experience of red because my consciousness reflects the brain responsible for both of those things. Maybe I feel red this way for the same reason I describe red this way." or worse, "I am a strange loop, a mathematical pattern thingy, but also I am an illusion for some reason I guess so I don't really exist I just feel like I do (which is an illusion that I feel something because I don't feel anything albeit)"
