1Based Frog1
Well-known member
It’s important for readers to know the names of Hitler’s four secretaries:
1. Johanna Wolf (worked for Hitler from 1929-1945)
2. Christa Schroeder (worked for Hitler from 1933-1945)
3. Gerda Daranowski Christian (worked 1937-1942, 1944-1945)
4. Traudl Junge (worked 1942-1945)
Hitler’s first secretary was Johanna Wolf (1900-1985). Although she was offered in 1976 a total of $1,000,000 to write her memoirs, she declined. Wolf believed she was a private secretary, with the accent on “private.” She remained loyal to Hitler’s memory and maintained a lively correspondence with Hitler fans from all over the world. Johanna Wolf is shown below in 1943 (note the gold party badge, given only by Hitler personally):
The only interview Wolf apparently ever gave was in February, 1948 to American judge Michael Musmanno. She discussed the real Hitler as being fatherly, friendly and even-tempered. She also discusses Eva Braun and her relationship with her boss.
The interview transcript is contained in the Michael Musmanno papers in Duquesne University Archives. It was first uncovered and shared on the internet by an American researcher who blogged under the name putschgirl on tumblr and adolfhitler33 on wordpress. Both blogs are now defunct thanks to the usual culprits.
Here are extracts from the only interview ever given by Johanna Wolf:
Q: When did you first come to work for Hitler?
A: I was first by him on November 1, 1929, but at that time I was working mainly for Rudolf Hess.
Q: Where was this?
A: In Munich.
Q: This was purely political work then?
A: Office work. It was secretarial work but of course I also got to know Hitler as a person at that time. His personality was always more important than the work.
Q: Why did Hitler choose you to be his first private secretary?
A: He had known me for some time, we had been friendly during the time I worked with Hess. Hitler didn’t like new people around him, he was a loner and liked the same people around him. I was comfortable for him so I was the secretary chosen.
Q: When was the first date that you actually did some secretarial work for Hitler, typing a speech or something like that?
A: Well, it would have been late 1929. I didn’t type his speeches, I would type leaflets for him. He wasn’t yet the Fuehrer in 1929, mind you. I would take down his dictation and that was that. I didn’t type letters for him then at all.
Q: Did you get to know Hitler well early on?
A: I would say we got along very well from the beginning. I was born and bred in Munich and Hitler always had a very distinct preference for people from Munich. It was our dialect, our manner, or way of life. Hitler hated Prussians. He loved Munich and our people. Over the years I would say I knew Hitler very well indeed. Yes, I believe I did know him.
Hitler during this period
Q: What was he like in 1929 as opposed to later on?
A: Hitler was always a very simple and very polite man. His manners were Austrian and impeccable. He was an extremely charming man. I discount that his fame and position were what made people turn around and look at him on the street. In 1929, he wasn’t famous much outside of Bavaria. But I saw myself that he created a frenzy because of his personality and that strange force that emanated from him.
Q: Can you provide some examples from these early days?
A: I can remember going to Trier with him in 1930. Trier was then and now a sleepy place then and we stayed at a Pension in the city. Hitler was there not to make a speech but to get money from a wealthy socialite. Hardly anybody knew him but all the women in the hotel all were enthusiastic about him, wanting to meet him or touch his hand. He had that aura. It was unmistakable. That never left him, incidentally. He was a physically broken down wreck in 1945, but he still had that aura.
Q: It couldn’t have been his looks that caused people to take notice of him.
A: I would not discount that aspect. Hitler looked well for many years. In addition, his intelligence, his personality and his charm were irresistible for men and for women alike. He was like a tidal wave when you were with him.
Q: When Hitler went to Berlin in 1933, did you go with him?
A: Yes, I did. I actually commuted between Munich, Berlin and the Obersalzberg. I followed Hitler so I followed his routine. I kept my flat in Munich and so too did Hitler. He kept his private life in Munich separate from his official life.
Q: And you were with Hitler at the Reich Chancellery in Berlin from 1933?
A: Yes. Fräulein Schroeder also came into his employ then, in June or July, 1933. My mother was in poor health and when Hitler gave me leave to tend to my mother, Schroeder would take over for that period.
Q: Hitler also had two other secretaries, Frau Junge and Frau Christian. When did they start working for Hitler?
A: Frau Christian came much later, I don’t remember the year. It was probably 1938 or a little earlier. Hitler said he needed a younger secretary so she appeared one day. Frau Junge came far later, in 1942 I think. She was given a test by the Fuehrer and she became his fourth and final secretary.
Q: What was the relationship between all four of the secretaries?
A: Always friendly. We were good company. Of course we all three were different ages and temperament. The younger ones could be jealous.
Q: How do you mean that?
A: Frau Christian, originally Fräulein Daranowski, was very much taken with Hitler and he with her. There was an attraction and this caused some ruffled feathers. It was a mutual attraction that no one could fail to notice.
Q: How do you know there was an “attraction” as you put it?
A: It was apparent to all, we weren’t blind. Dara is her nickname, I think it was Bormann who coined that, but Hitler picked up on it. Dara made every attempt to get close to the Fuehrer. She succeeded to some extent, but not to the limit she wished to reach.
Q: You mean this woman wanted an intimate relationship with Hitler?
A: Without question she did.
Q: Did this ever happen as far as you know?
A: No, it did not, despite many years of Dara trying. I must say Hitler was a big flirt, he liked to flirt and did so very well indeed. This was the Austrian side to him, which predominated always. He enjoyed the attentions of a pretty young girl, but he never allowed her to get that close to him. I had the impression, and I think everyone else had the same feeling, that he would have liked to have her as his special “friend” but he had put up a wall no one could penetrate.
Q: Not even Eva Braun?
A: Well of course that’s a different person entirely and an entirely different relationship. She was an established presence in Hitler’s life, Dara was just his secretary.
Q: Did Dara tell you she was interested in Hitler romantically?
A: Every woman, to some extent or another, was interested in him. That was the rule, it was a given. Once in a great while some woman or other would visit him and seem to be immune from his charm. But that was the exception. Dara made it clear that she felt Hitler was the ultimate prize, she really and truly adored him very much. Her marriage was of not real importance to her I don’t think. I’m not revealing a confidential matter, she would tell you the same thing if you were to ask her.
Q: How did Hitler treat you specifically?
A: Very well. He was always the perfect boss. For instance, if I got sick, he would be very paternal, pat my hand, stroke my forearm and say, “Child, you go home now. I will send a doctor over to tend to you.” He would also be very affectionate to my mother, of whom Hitler was also very fond. He would send her chocolates with a little note. The older women always adored Hitler, in some respects more than the young ones.
Q: You said he flirted with Frau Christian (Dara). How did he do that?
A: He would compliment her and do it in the most interesting ways. He noticed her hair and would notice instantly if her hair was in a different style or color. For instance, if Dara came in with a new dress he would say, “you look even more lovely this afternoon than usual!” He called her “my Princess” or “"My beauty.” But that was all. Very late in his life he would say some more racy things to her which I would not like to repeat. I personally believe he was under the influence of drugs when these remarks were made.
Q: Would you care to tell me the remarks?
A: I really do not want to repeat them out of respect for both parties. She would probably be only too happy to reveal what he said to her.
(Note: according to what Schroeder and Dara told James O’Donnell in 1974, Hitler had said to Dara in late 1944, “you should appear for lunch dressed only in stockings and hat, otherwise naked.” Schroeder said that Dr. Morell had just given him an an injection of testosterone).
Q: What about Fräulein Schroeder? I have heard there was tension between her and Hitler?
A: Well, speaking strictly from my own point of view, I cannot recall a single angry word from him to anyone. He did not have rages or fits of temper. Nobody could be in a better position to know this than I am. I was with Hitler more or less constantly for 16 years. I never saw him angry. The only occasion when he showed any anger was when somebody interrupted him.
Q: But what about the tensions between Hitler and Fräulein Schroeder?
A: There were some incidents where Fräulein Schroeder’s sharp tongue caused Hitler to be more cool toward her. This really only concerned the most intimate, smallest circle around Hitler. She was very outspoken, a quality Hitler didn’t like in women, but since Fräulein Schroeder had been with him since 1933, he tended to forgive her outbursts. She said many things which would have caused a man to have been sacked.
Q: Was she also in love with Hitler as was Dara?
A: No, but she was deeply under his spell. Fräulein Schroeder was older and not as attractive as Dara or Frau Junge, so he had a different relationship with her and with me. Neither of us were beauties, so Hitler could treat us very well but absent was that flirtatious tenderness which he showed to younger, prettier women.
Q: I am interested in the character of Adolf Hitler from a historical point of view. It seems generally understood that he was capable of flying into terrible rages, and you’re saying this didn’t happen?
A: Well, I never experienced such a thing and I was part of his most intimate circle. I never saw him angry, that is the simple truth. In fact, it was my impression that in our small circle, he wanted to relax rather than be bothered with other problems. Hitler in private was very pleasant and relaxing.
Q: It’s only human that in your long experience with Hitler that you would have made some mistake in transcription or handing him the wrong paper. When he noticed a very obvious error from you, what was his attitude in correcting you?
A: He never became impatient on such occasions. Not once. He always treated me with affection and consideration. If I didn’t feel well, he would say, “Alright, my dear, you go home and feel better.” Then he would squeeze my hand, pat my shoulder and send me home. He would make sure Kannenberg would make me some chicken broth soup or sometimes something else soothing. He was always considerate in such matters.
Q: Were you fond of him then?
A: Naturally I was more than merely ‘fond’ of him. I was intensely interested in him as a man and as a leader. He was the perfect boss and very delightful to be around him. Hitler was amazingly well informed, quite an interesting conversationalist, though he monopolized the talks generally. He also was a superb mimic. He imitated Mussolini, opera singers, people like that. He was very funny in his droll way. It was quite something of a privilege to be near him for so long. I won’t lie about this to you.
Q: How often did you have meals with him?
A: Every day. In the last few years, he ate exclusively with the secretaries whereas in the old days he would eat with Goebbels, military men, Hess, Speer or anyone else. Not in the last years.
Q: Why was that?
A: The reason he gave is because he wanted to hear gentle voices of women. He hated by then the sound of male voices, probably because of the situation conferences on the war. He told me, “I can’t relax with men, I need women around me. I do not want to be bothered with military or official problems.“
Q: In those lunch periods, what would he talk about?
A: Oh, all sorts of things, painting, movies, music, the arts. He loved having Frau Christian and Frau Junge there because they were both young and pretty and with them the conversation would flow vividly. It was a great deal of fun. Hitler sometimes would whistle and even sing a little from operas. He didn’t have a bad singing voice, a nice baritone. But he sang rarely.
Q: In these later years, did he comment on the war?
A: Very rarely, almost never in fact. He didn’t want to think about it or discuss it with us.
Q: Well, for instance, did he ever say, “the war is lost?“
A: I’ll have to tell you a little story about that. At the beginning of March, 1945, I was beginning to get very depressed. I saw the Russians getting nearer and nearer and I once asked him, "Chef, things look very black for us. What is going to happen?” Hitler took my hand in his and said, “Don’t you worry, we will win.” It was my impression he wanted the Americans and British to advance rather than the Russians, whom of course we all loathed and feared.
Q: What did he say after he told you “we will win?"
A: Nothing, he broke off the chat abruptly. He was deeply depressed by then too, but as I said, he would not discuss military matters with women.
Q: Please let me return to the subject of Fräulein Schroeder. We have been told by other people that she would openly disagree with Hitler. Are you saying this in untrue?
A: Well, since you insist, I can say I did experience this. There were several occasions when she not only interrupted Hitler but she held a differing opinion from him. At those times, Hitler insisted she take a brief leave of absence. She then wouldn’t turn up for some time. I think Eva Braun also influenced him in this matter.
Q: How did Eva Braun become involved in the matter?
A: Fräulein Schroeder treated Eva very well to her face but she did make some slightly disagreeable remarks about her which got back to Hitler in some way. He was not pleased and he made this known. Bormann told me about this in some considerable detail.
Q: What remarks did she make specifically?
A: I’m not sure of the exact words, but she told Heinrich Hoffmann, the photographer of Hitler, that Eva was not good enough for Hitler and she was going to find him a more suitable girlfriend. Hoffmann repeated this to Hitler and she was banished for awhile. I might add, she claimed to have said the same thing to Hitler’s face.
Q: What was his reaction and when did this occur?
A: I was not present at this occasion, it was apparently at the Berghof before the war. Fräulein Schroeder said he was bemused, but she was put on leave after that fiasco. So one can infer he was displeased.
Q: Do you know what she said to Hitler?
A: She apparently just told Hitler that she had a better companion for him than Eva, that Eva was not a good fit for him, something like that. He was not angry at her, but instead she was gone for awhile after this faux pas.
Q: Ridiculing Eva Braun was annoying to Hitler?
A: Yes, anything concerning Eva had the potential to annoy Hitler, if people were too inquisitive, too critical or involved in his business in any way. He kept her tucked away and his decisions or relationship with her was strictly taboo to discuss.
Q: May we discuss Eva Braun and your relationship with her?
A: Of course.
Q: Did you know Eva Braun very well?
A: Yes, I knew her from very early on and knew her until I left the Bunker in April, 1945.
Q: Did she always treat you well?
A: Oh yes, Eva was always very nice. She was a nice and pleasant person to me. Eva was friendly, not pushy and had a nice manner about her.
Q: Can you remember when you first heard about Eva Braun?
A: That would have been in 1932, a year before Hitler became Chancellor. It was Hoffmann who told me about her.
Q: This was the photographer?
A: Yes, and this was some time after Geli had died, Hitler’s beloved niece. I did not know her, but knew of Hitler’s veneration for her. Eva replaced Geli and it was early on that Hoffmann told me the Chef had a new girlfriend and he told me her name.
Q: When did you first meet her?
A: I saw her twice or possibly three times at the Osteria, Hitler’s restaurant in Munich. Hitler in fact introduced me to her and he was somewhat shy about it. His behavior was different, so I knew this girl was something special in his life, or at least he was embarrassed that I was there to see her. I want to stress again how secretive he was about her.
Q: How would you describe how she looked?
A: Eva Braun was always considered very pretty and she was. I would say she photographed well and she looked as she did in her best portraits, neither better or worse. When I first met her she was extremely young, probably only 18 or 19 years old. She grew more self-assured later as she matured.
Q: At the table, how did he behave toward her?
A: She always sat on his left. Always. I never saw it any other way. And woe to anyone in later years who tried to sit on his left, she would re-arrange that so that she had her proper spot. Bormann once had to get Frau Morell up from a chair because she sat on the Fuehrer’s left.
Q: Did she say why she wanted to be on his left?
A: She never did, but we assumed it was because she liked to look at his left profile as opposed to the right. But I don’t know this, this is speculation on my part. Eva Braun never said this, at least I did not hear this.
Q: What was their relationship like?
A: It evolved and deepened over the years. Eva also changed and evolved as well. She was not the same naive young girl that I first met by the time of the war, for instance. She grew in stature and in self assurance. Her role in Hitler’s life was difficult at times, let’s be clear.
Q: Why was that?
A: Because their relationship was officially a secret. It was not easy for a pretty young girl to be hidden from view all the time. Naturally she wanted to meet the famous people who called on him, but she was always banished to her room at such times.
Q: Did she complain to you about this?
A: Not in so many words. She accepted that her position required discretion, tact and a selflessness most woman do not possess. I couldn’t have done it and will be the first to admit it.
Q: Were they affectionate with each other in your small group?
A: Usually not. Especially Eva never or should I say very seldom showed him affection in front of us. She always called him mein Führer or "Chef” (boss). Hitler, however, could be very affectionate with her and showed her great tenderness at times. He was not the ideal lover pictured in her imagination, he was really like a very busy businessman.
Q: Can you be more specific about how Hitler would show her affection?
A: Well, at the Berghof, he would sometimes be especially affectionate to her in an exaggerated way. He might come down the stairs in the afternoon from their private rooms, I’ve seen this. He would then approach Eva with mock gallantry, click his heels, bow a little too deeply from the waist and say, "May I kiss your hand, Fräulein Braun?” It was playacting. She joined in with the charade.
Q: Kempka told me they would hold hands?
A: Oh yes, oftentimes. But only in the small circle. I’ve also seen him pinch her cheek, put his hands on her forehead and stroke her hair, not often, but I saw those things over the course of the years.
Q: How did the secretaries view Eva?
A: I cannot speak for them. I myself treated her with respect and affection. I regarded her as the Chef’s wife, so to speak. She was his wife in every sense except the legal marriage certificate wasn’t in place yet. Hitler mentioned to me that when the whole nasty business of the war was concluded, he would marry Eva and they would settle in Linz. Now Dara had quite a bit of jealousy because she herself coveted the Fuehrer. Eva and Dara were not the best of friends for this reason.
Q: Was Eva jealous of Dara?
A: I think it was more the other way around, but Eva didn’t like women around the Fuehrer. She suffered a lot of bouts of jealousy.
Q: Did she have cause to be jealous?
A: I really do not think so. After 1933 there were no other women except Eva in Hitler’s intimate life. He loved beautiful women and he made no secret of that fact. But the only one close to him was Eva. He lived with her when circumstances permitted, there was no time or need for another female companion. Our circle knew her position in his life and we respected it because it was how the Führer had chosen to live.
Q: Did Eva talk to you about Hitler?
A: Yes, she was mostly concerned about his daily life. She wanted to make sure he was eating enough and not just sweets. You know he had a dreadful sweet tooth. He would put 20 lumps of sugar in with his tea and Eva worried about that. She hated his vegetarian diet and made fun of it. She wanted him to take a daily walk of at least 40 minutes, she worried about his insomnia. Things like that. In the war, she was very worried about his physical safety.
Q: And did Hitler ever talk to you about Eva Braun?
A: Frequently, and this became more frequent as the years went by. In the early years, he talked about her less. By 1938, she was established in his life as his only mistress and really the only person close to him physically and emotionally. She had earned his respect and his trust. He would sometimes say to me with great warmth how much he trusted Eva. He knew that she not only loved him, but was loyal to the bone. He grew to see that she was special in many ways to him.
Q: What sorts of things would he say about her to you?
A: For instance, he would tell me about her reaction to various gifts he would buy her. Incidentally, I read in a French magazine that Bormann bought all of Eva’s gifts. I know this is not true. Maybe in the war years, but earlier on, Hitler himself would go out to Herr Mueller’s shop in Munich. Herr Mueller was an old party member from very early days who ran a jewelry shop. Hitler would go there and select things for Eva. Once he showed me some jewelry he had bought her and asked my opinion. I said, “only a beauty such as Fräulein Braun could do justice to that.” He was very pleased with my answer.
Q: In your opinion then, Hitler was devoted to Eva?
A: From everything I saw, yes. And this feeling deepened in him as years passed. Once the war began, Hitler was isolated from everything except really from Eva Braun. When we would go to the Obersalzberg, it was like old times, pre-war.
1. Johanna Wolf (worked for Hitler from 1929-1945)
2. Christa Schroeder (worked for Hitler from 1933-1945)
3. Gerda Daranowski Christian (worked 1937-1942, 1944-1945)
4. Traudl Junge (worked 1942-1945)
Hitler’s first secretary was Johanna Wolf (1900-1985). Although she was offered in 1976 a total of $1,000,000 to write her memoirs, she declined. Wolf believed she was a private secretary, with the accent on “private.” She remained loyal to Hitler’s memory and maintained a lively correspondence with Hitler fans from all over the world. Johanna Wolf is shown below in 1943 (note the gold party badge, given only by Hitler personally):
The only interview Wolf apparently ever gave was in February, 1948 to American judge Michael Musmanno. She discussed the real Hitler as being fatherly, friendly and even-tempered. She also discusses Eva Braun and her relationship with her boss.
The interview transcript is contained in the Michael Musmanno papers in Duquesne University Archives. It was first uncovered and shared on the internet by an American researcher who blogged under the name putschgirl on tumblr and adolfhitler33 on wordpress. Both blogs are now defunct thanks to the usual culprits.
Here are extracts from the only interview ever given by Johanna Wolf:
Q: When did you first come to work for Hitler?
A: I was first by him on November 1, 1929, but at that time I was working mainly for Rudolf Hess.
Q: Where was this?
A: In Munich.
Q: This was purely political work then?
A: Office work. It was secretarial work but of course I also got to know Hitler as a person at that time. His personality was always more important than the work.
Q: Why did Hitler choose you to be his first private secretary?
A: He had known me for some time, we had been friendly during the time I worked with Hess. Hitler didn’t like new people around him, he was a loner and liked the same people around him. I was comfortable for him so I was the secretary chosen.
Q: When was the first date that you actually did some secretarial work for Hitler, typing a speech or something like that?
A: Well, it would have been late 1929. I didn’t type his speeches, I would type leaflets for him. He wasn’t yet the Fuehrer in 1929, mind you. I would take down his dictation and that was that. I didn’t type letters for him then at all.
Q: Did you get to know Hitler well early on?
A: I would say we got along very well from the beginning. I was born and bred in Munich and Hitler always had a very distinct preference for people from Munich. It was our dialect, our manner, or way of life. Hitler hated Prussians. He loved Munich and our people. Over the years I would say I knew Hitler very well indeed. Yes, I believe I did know him.
Q: What was he like in 1929 as opposed to later on?
A: Hitler was always a very simple and very polite man. His manners were Austrian and impeccable. He was an extremely charming man. I discount that his fame and position were what made people turn around and look at him on the street. In 1929, he wasn’t famous much outside of Bavaria. But I saw myself that he created a frenzy because of his personality and that strange force that emanated from him.
Q: Can you provide some examples from these early days?
A: I can remember going to Trier with him in 1930. Trier was then and now a sleepy place then and we stayed at a Pension in the city. Hitler was there not to make a speech but to get money from a wealthy socialite. Hardly anybody knew him but all the women in the hotel all were enthusiastic about him, wanting to meet him or touch his hand. He had that aura. It was unmistakable. That never left him, incidentally. He was a physically broken down wreck in 1945, but he still had that aura.
Q: It couldn’t have been his looks that caused people to take notice of him.
A: I would not discount that aspect. Hitler looked well for many years. In addition, his intelligence, his personality and his charm were irresistible for men and for women alike. He was like a tidal wave when you were with him.
Q: When Hitler went to Berlin in 1933, did you go with him?
A: Yes, I did. I actually commuted between Munich, Berlin and the Obersalzberg. I followed Hitler so I followed his routine. I kept my flat in Munich and so too did Hitler. He kept his private life in Munich separate from his official life.
Q: And you were with Hitler at the Reich Chancellery in Berlin from 1933?
A: Yes. Fräulein Schroeder also came into his employ then, in June or July, 1933. My mother was in poor health and when Hitler gave me leave to tend to my mother, Schroeder would take over for that period.
Q: Hitler also had two other secretaries, Frau Junge and Frau Christian. When did they start working for Hitler?
A: Frau Christian came much later, I don’t remember the year. It was probably 1938 or a little earlier. Hitler said he needed a younger secretary so she appeared one day. Frau Junge came far later, in 1942 I think. She was given a test by the Fuehrer and she became his fourth and final secretary.
Q: What was the relationship between all four of the secretaries?
A: Always friendly. We were good company. Of course we all three were different ages and temperament. The younger ones could be jealous.
Q: How do you mean that?
A: Frau Christian, originally Fräulein Daranowski, was very much taken with Hitler and he with her. There was an attraction and this caused some ruffled feathers. It was a mutual attraction that no one could fail to notice.
Q: How do you know there was an “attraction” as you put it?
A: It was apparent to all, we weren’t blind. Dara is her nickname, I think it was Bormann who coined that, but Hitler picked up on it. Dara made every attempt to get close to the Fuehrer. She succeeded to some extent, but not to the limit she wished to reach.
Q: You mean this woman wanted an intimate relationship with Hitler?
A: Without question she did.
Q: Did this ever happen as far as you know?
A: No, it did not, despite many years of Dara trying. I must say Hitler was a big flirt, he liked to flirt and did so very well indeed. This was the Austrian side to him, which predominated always. He enjoyed the attentions of a pretty young girl, but he never allowed her to get that close to him. I had the impression, and I think everyone else had the same feeling, that he would have liked to have her as his special “friend” but he had put up a wall no one could penetrate.
Q: Not even Eva Braun?
A: Well of course that’s a different person entirely and an entirely different relationship. She was an established presence in Hitler’s life, Dara was just his secretary.
Q: Did Dara tell you she was interested in Hitler romantically?
A: Every woman, to some extent or another, was interested in him. That was the rule, it was a given. Once in a great while some woman or other would visit him and seem to be immune from his charm. But that was the exception. Dara made it clear that she felt Hitler was the ultimate prize, she really and truly adored him very much. Her marriage was of not real importance to her I don’t think. I’m not revealing a confidential matter, she would tell you the same thing if you were to ask her.
Q: How did Hitler treat you specifically?
A: Very well. He was always the perfect boss. For instance, if I got sick, he would be very paternal, pat my hand, stroke my forearm and say, “Child, you go home now. I will send a doctor over to tend to you.” He would also be very affectionate to my mother, of whom Hitler was also very fond. He would send her chocolates with a little note. The older women always adored Hitler, in some respects more than the young ones.
Q: You said he flirted with Frau Christian (Dara). How did he do that?
A: He would compliment her and do it in the most interesting ways. He noticed her hair and would notice instantly if her hair was in a different style or color. For instance, if Dara came in with a new dress he would say, “you look even more lovely this afternoon than usual!” He called her “my Princess” or “"My beauty.” But that was all. Very late in his life he would say some more racy things to her which I would not like to repeat. I personally believe he was under the influence of drugs when these remarks were made.
Q: Would you care to tell me the remarks?
A: I really do not want to repeat them out of respect for both parties. She would probably be only too happy to reveal what he said to her.
(Note: according to what Schroeder and Dara told James O’Donnell in 1974, Hitler had said to Dara in late 1944, “you should appear for lunch dressed only in stockings and hat, otherwise naked.” Schroeder said that Dr. Morell had just given him an an injection of testosterone).
Q: What about Fräulein Schroeder? I have heard there was tension between her and Hitler?
A: Well, speaking strictly from my own point of view, I cannot recall a single angry word from him to anyone. He did not have rages or fits of temper. Nobody could be in a better position to know this than I am. I was with Hitler more or less constantly for 16 years. I never saw him angry. The only occasion when he showed any anger was when somebody interrupted him.
Q: But what about the tensions between Hitler and Fräulein Schroeder?
A: There were some incidents where Fräulein Schroeder’s sharp tongue caused Hitler to be more cool toward her. This really only concerned the most intimate, smallest circle around Hitler. She was very outspoken, a quality Hitler didn’t like in women, but since Fräulein Schroeder had been with him since 1933, he tended to forgive her outbursts. She said many things which would have caused a man to have been sacked.
Q: Was she also in love with Hitler as was Dara?
A: No, but she was deeply under his spell. Fräulein Schroeder was older and not as attractive as Dara or Frau Junge, so he had a different relationship with her and with me. Neither of us were beauties, so Hitler could treat us very well but absent was that flirtatious tenderness which he showed to younger, prettier women.
Q: I am interested in the character of Adolf Hitler from a historical point of view. It seems generally understood that he was capable of flying into terrible rages, and you’re saying this didn’t happen?
A: Well, I never experienced such a thing and I was part of his most intimate circle. I never saw him angry, that is the simple truth. In fact, it was my impression that in our small circle, he wanted to relax rather than be bothered with other problems. Hitler in private was very pleasant and relaxing.
Q: It’s only human that in your long experience with Hitler that you would have made some mistake in transcription or handing him the wrong paper. When he noticed a very obvious error from you, what was his attitude in correcting you?
A: He never became impatient on such occasions. Not once. He always treated me with affection and consideration. If I didn’t feel well, he would say, “Alright, my dear, you go home and feel better.” Then he would squeeze my hand, pat my shoulder and send me home. He would make sure Kannenberg would make me some chicken broth soup or sometimes something else soothing. He was always considerate in such matters.
Q: Were you fond of him then?
A: Naturally I was more than merely ‘fond’ of him. I was intensely interested in him as a man and as a leader. He was the perfect boss and very delightful to be around him. Hitler was amazingly well informed, quite an interesting conversationalist, though he monopolized the talks generally. He also was a superb mimic. He imitated Mussolini, opera singers, people like that. He was very funny in his droll way. It was quite something of a privilege to be near him for so long. I won’t lie about this to you.
Q: How often did you have meals with him?
A: Every day. In the last few years, he ate exclusively with the secretaries whereas in the old days he would eat with Goebbels, military men, Hess, Speer or anyone else. Not in the last years.
Q: Why was that?
A: The reason he gave is because he wanted to hear gentle voices of women. He hated by then the sound of male voices, probably because of the situation conferences on the war. He told me, “I can’t relax with men, I need women around me. I do not want to be bothered with military or official problems.“
Q: In those lunch periods, what would he talk about?
A: Oh, all sorts of things, painting, movies, music, the arts. He loved having Frau Christian and Frau Junge there because they were both young and pretty and with them the conversation would flow vividly. It was a great deal of fun. Hitler sometimes would whistle and even sing a little from operas. He didn’t have a bad singing voice, a nice baritone. But he sang rarely.
Q: In these later years, did he comment on the war?
A: Very rarely, almost never in fact. He didn’t want to think about it or discuss it with us.
Q: Well, for instance, did he ever say, “the war is lost?“
A: I’ll have to tell you a little story about that. At the beginning of March, 1945, I was beginning to get very depressed. I saw the Russians getting nearer and nearer and I once asked him, "Chef, things look very black for us. What is going to happen?” Hitler took my hand in his and said, “Don’t you worry, we will win.” It was my impression he wanted the Americans and British to advance rather than the Russians, whom of course we all loathed and feared.
Q: What did he say after he told you “we will win?"
A: Nothing, he broke off the chat abruptly. He was deeply depressed by then too, but as I said, he would not discuss military matters with women.
Q: Please let me return to the subject of Fräulein Schroeder. We have been told by other people that she would openly disagree with Hitler. Are you saying this in untrue?
A: Well, since you insist, I can say I did experience this. There were several occasions when she not only interrupted Hitler but she held a differing opinion from him. At those times, Hitler insisted she take a brief leave of absence. She then wouldn’t turn up for some time. I think Eva Braun also influenced him in this matter.
Q: How did Eva Braun become involved in the matter?
A: Fräulein Schroeder treated Eva very well to her face but she did make some slightly disagreeable remarks about her which got back to Hitler in some way. He was not pleased and he made this known. Bormann told me about this in some considerable detail.
Q: What remarks did she make specifically?
A: I’m not sure of the exact words, but she told Heinrich Hoffmann, the photographer of Hitler, that Eva was not good enough for Hitler and she was going to find him a more suitable girlfriend. Hoffmann repeated this to Hitler and she was banished for awhile. I might add, she claimed to have said the same thing to Hitler’s face.
Q: What was his reaction and when did this occur?
A: I was not present at this occasion, it was apparently at the Berghof before the war. Fräulein Schroeder said he was bemused, but she was put on leave after that fiasco. So one can infer he was displeased.
Q: Do you know what she said to Hitler?
A: She apparently just told Hitler that she had a better companion for him than Eva, that Eva was not a good fit for him, something like that. He was not angry at her, but instead she was gone for awhile after this faux pas.
Q: Ridiculing Eva Braun was annoying to Hitler?
A: Yes, anything concerning Eva had the potential to annoy Hitler, if people were too inquisitive, too critical or involved in his business in any way. He kept her tucked away and his decisions or relationship with her was strictly taboo to discuss.
Q: May we discuss Eva Braun and your relationship with her?
A: Of course.
Q: Did you know Eva Braun very well?
A: Yes, I knew her from very early on and knew her until I left the Bunker in April, 1945.
Q: Did she always treat you well?
A: Oh yes, Eva was always very nice. She was a nice and pleasant person to me. Eva was friendly, not pushy and had a nice manner about her.
Q: Can you remember when you first heard about Eva Braun?
A: That would have been in 1932, a year before Hitler became Chancellor. It was Hoffmann who told me about her.
Q: This was the photographer?
A: Yes, and this was some time after Geli had died, Hitler’s beloved niece. I did not know her, but knew of Hitler’s veneration for her. Eva replaced Geli and it was early on that Hoffmann told me the Chef had a new girlfriend and he told me her name.
Q: When did you first meet her?
A: I saw her twice or possibly three times at the Osteria, Hitler’s restaurant in Munich. Hitler in fact introduced me to her and he was somewhat shy about it. His behavior was different, so I knew this girl was something special in his life, or at least he was embarrassed that I was there to see her. I want to stress again how secretive he was about her.
Q: How would you describe how she looked?
A: Eva Braun was always considered very pretty and she was. I would say she photographed well and she looked as she did in her best portraits, neither better or worse. When I first met her she was extremely young, probably only 18 or 19 years old. She grew more self-assured later as she matured.
Q: At the table, how did he behave toward her?
A: She always sat on his left. Always. I never saw it any other way. And woe to anyone in later years who tried to sit on his left, she would re-arrange that so that she had her proper spot. Bormann once had to get Frau Morell up from a chair because she sat on the Fuehrer’s left.
Q: Did she say why she wanted to be on his left?
A: She never did, but we assumed it was because she liked to look at his left profile as opposed to the right. But I don’t know this, this is speculation on my part. Eva Braun never said this, at least I did not hear this.
Q: What was their relationship like?
A: It evolved and deepened over the years. Eva also changed and evolved as well. She was not the same naive young girl that I first met by the time of the war, for instance. She grew in stature and in self assurance. Her role in Hitler’s life was difficult at times, let’s be clear.
Q: Why was that?
A: Because their relationship was officially a secret. It was not easy for a pretty young girl to be hidden from view all the time. Naturally she wanted to meet the famous people who called on him, but she was always banished to her room at such times.
Q: Did she complain to you about this?
A: Not in so many words. She accepted that her position required discretion, tact and a selflessness most woman do not possess. I couldn’t have done it and will be the first to admit it.
Q: Were they affectionate with each other in your small group?
A: Usually not. Especially Eva never or should I say very seldom showed him affection in front of us. She always called him mein Führer or "Chef” (boss). Hitler, however, could be very affectionate with her and showed her great tenderness at times. He was not the ideal lover pictured in her imagination, he was really like a very busy businessman.
Q: Can you be more specific about how Hitler would show her affection?
A: Well, at the Berghof, he would sometimes be especially affectionate to her in an exaggerated way. He might come down the stairs in the afternoon from their private rooms, I’ve seen this. He would then approach Eva with mock gallantry, click his heels, bow a little too deeply from the waist and say, "May I kiss your hand, Fräulein Braun?” It was playacting. She joined in with the charade.
Q: Kempka told me they would hold hands?
A: Oh yes, oftentimes. But only in the small circle. I’ve also seen him pinch her cheek, put his hands on her forehead and stroke her hair, not often, but I saw those things over the course of the years.
Q: How did the secretaries view Eva?
A: I cannot speak for them. I myself treated her with respect and affection. I regarded her as the Chef’s wife, so to speak. She was his wife in every sense except the legal marriage certificate wasn’t in place yet. Hitler mentioned to me that when the whole nasty business of the war was concluded, he would marry Eva and they would settle in Linz. Now Dara had quite a bit of jealousy because she herself coveted the Fuehrer. Eva and Dara were not the best of friends for this reason.
Q: Was Eva jealous of Dara?
A: I think it was more the other way around, but Eva didn’t like women around the Fuehrer. She suffered a lot of bouts of jealousy.
Q: Did she have cause to be jealous?
A: I really do not think so. After 1933 there were no other women except Eva in Hitler’s intimate life. He loved beautiful women and he made no secret of that fact. But the only one close to him was Eva. He lived with her when circumstances permitted, there was no time or need for another female companion. Our circle knew her position in his life and we respected it because it was how the Führer had chosen to live.
Q: Did Eva talk to you about Hitler?
A: Yes, she was mostly concerned about his daily life. She wanted to make sure he was eating enough and not just sweets. You know he had a dreadful sweet tooth. He would put 20 lumps of sugar in with his tea and Eva worried about that. She hated his vegetarian diet and made fun of it. She wanted him to take a daily walk of at least 40 minutes, she worried about his insomnia. Things like that. In the war, she was very worried about his physical safety.
Q: And did Hitler ever talk to you about Eva Braun?
A: Frequently, and this became more frequent as the years went by. In the early years, he talked about her less. By 1938, she was established in his life as his only mistress and really the only person close to him physically and emotionally. She had earned his respect and his trust. He would sometimes say to me with great warmth how much he trusted Eva. He knew that she not only loved him, but was loyal to the bone. He grew to see that she was special in many ways to him.
Q: What sorts of things would he say about her to you?
A: For instance, he would tell me about her reaction to various gifts he would buy her. Incidentally, I read in a French magazine that Bormann bought all of Eva’s gifts. I know this is not true. Maybe in the war years, but earlier on, Hitler himself would go out to Herr Mueller’s shop in Munich. Herr Mueller was an old party member from very early days who ran a jewelry shop. Hitler would go there and select things for Eva. Once he showed me some jewelry he had bought her and asked my opinion. I said, “only a beauty such as Fräulein Braun could do justice to that.” He was very pleased with my answer.
Q: In your opinion then, Hitler was devoted to Eva?
A: From everything I saw, yes. And this feeling deepened in him as years passed. Once the war began, Hitler was isolated from everything except really from Eva Braun. When we would go to the Obersalzberg, it was like old times, pre-war.
